TOYAH ON
BBC RADIO 2
TRACKS OF MY YEARS
WITH VERNON KAY
1.9.2025

The Beatles "She Loves You" plays

TOYAH: I'm an imitator. I was born in 1958 and the Beatles were so big in my childhood. In fact, I thought they were the only band in the world. I thought if I heard a song on the radio, it was by the Beatles. But when I saw the Beatles on TV doing “she loves you, yeah, yeah, yeah” and shaking their head so I started to do the head shake (Vernon laughs), which kind of brings me back to my first dance on “Strictly Come Dancing” where I did the tango and shook my head

But this is a different thing. It was so endearing. And the thing about the Beatles, not only were they brilliant songwriters, brilliant performers - they culturally changed my generation and this song is so deep in my heart as a beautiful sing along song that you shake your head too

VERNON KAY: Can you remember the first time you heard the Beatles?

TOYAH: Yes, my mother used to drive me to school every day in her bright blue Triumph convertible, and she always had the radio on. She was probably only about 32 at this point and we loved the Beatles

It was my happiest moment of the day, because I didn't like school and the Beatles just lifted my mood, even at a very young age. At four and a half, five years old, I just knew I'd come home

VERNON: Do you think that the Beatles are part of the reason why you got into music yourself?

TOYAH: The Beatles made music accessible. And of course they were on every variety show that was on the TV at that time. They were part of the family sitting around the telly, enjoying being entertained. Now today, as a touring musician, I look at their beginnings, where they worked seven days a week, two shows a day, across Germany, mainly in Hamburg

VERNON: Isn't that amazing?

TOYAH: It's amazing. They honed their craft and they had a chance to hone their craft, because today young people have to go in running and they have to be top of their league immediately. Whereas the Beatles not only had that incredible experience to learn their musicianship live in front of audiences, they also were able to develop their sound with a phenomenal producer and engineer George Martin, who they could say any idea to, and George Martin would make it happen. I've made albums in Abbey Road, which is where they mainly recorded, and it is a magical place to be

VERNON: Yeah, it's pretty special


TOYAH: I've just remembered Paul McCartney awarded me a fellowship of LIPA, which is the Liverpool Institute of Performing Arts. It's his drama school and I had my fellowship in 2018 standing right beside Nile Rogers (above on the right with Toyah and Paul). I just could not believe this moment

Here I was on a stage in Liverpool with Sir Paul. I mean, he hears it every day. He is so loved and so respected. But I was truly trying to slow my heart rate down standing next to him (Vernon laughs) We saw him in July and he still looks absolutely incredible

VERNON: Yeah, he does. It's crazy, isn't it? Every time you see him there's a different carnation of Paul McCartney

TOYAH: For me, it's the “Mull of Kintyre”, but it was his need to be in that environment and still have his love of music around him. I think when I heard “Mull of Kintyre” I was becoming famous and to see his perspective of what his life is and that he needed to be quite remote to be a creative human being

I always think back to that amazing band walking across the shore at the Mull of Kintyre, playing their bagpipes, and Paul's happiness in that environment is so telling

VERNON: We've gone from the Beatles to Jefferson Airplane with Grace Slick, and you've picked “White Rabbit”. Now, if ever there was a tune that just gets you, well, me, personally, gets me really ramped and fired up it's this. The build up in this Jefferson air track is something else

TOYAH: It's unbelieveable

VERNON: It really is. Why have you picked this?

TOYAH: Well, it's Grace Slick. She is absolutely phenomenal, and her timing and her breath control. So what I mean by this, because I sing live on stage all the time, is you have to have complete control of how you breathe. It's how you control your notes. Listening to her, technically, I cannot copy her. I can't pick up this song, and I've been trying for quite a long time

I have a very large social media following and we have 150 million visitors to our sites. It's a song that my husband, Robert Fripp and I have been wanting to do on our socials. I said “Robert, I'm just not ready for it”. She is the King Crimson, the prog rock of singing. I cannot do this song so it's something I've been trying to work out for a long, long time

But there is also a very personal thread to this song. White rabbit. All my life I've had white bunny rabbits living in our home. At the moment I have a nine kilogram giant white continental bunny

VERNON: That's not a bunny! Someone sold you a cat! That's huge!

TOYAH: Someone sold me a dog with big ears and I've actually put my back out lifting this bunny rabbit

VERNON: I'm not surprised!

TOYAH: This song made me fall in love with white rabbits and I can't live without one

VERNON: The Jefferson Airplane did everything back in the day, didn't it? They toured the world. I think they toured with The Doors and I think Grace lick, at some stage, had a little bit of a ding dong with Jim Morrison. But they're one of those bands. For me, it's my student band, Jefferson Airplane

TOYAH: Even as a punk rockers we played this song. We respected it so much. But for me it's one of those songs that as a rebellious teenager, who wants to move away from home, who wants your own life, it just kind of stamps that individuality into your brain because she's so strong on it

VERNON: She is and she's still with us. She's 85 now

TOYAH: Fabulous!

Jefferson Airplane “White Rabbit” plays
T.Rex “Ride A White Swan” plays

TOYAH: (That was the) first single I ever bought with 12 shillings and sixpence

VERNON: Hold that thought. Where were you?

TOYAH: Birmingham. I was on Vicarage Road in Kings Heath at a legendary vinyl shop that only closed in recent years

VERNON: Wow. Nice! And was that the place to go for vinyl back then?

TOYAH: It was the place to go back then and even in this millennium it was the place to go. When it closed it made the national press. It was so important that shop. I bought Black Sabbath's “Paranoid” there. I bought my Led Zeppelin albums. There I bought my Uriah Heep. I bought Yes. I mean, you name it. I bought everything but King Crimson

VERNON: Oh, Robert, don't listen to this! Don't listen. Sorry, Robert. We'll move swiftly on. The ceremony of buying vinyl was quite special, because were you the kind of person who knew what you were going to go and buy as you left the house, or were you going to the record shop to hang out and you would stumble across music. How did it work?

TOYAH: When I bought T.Rex's “Ride A White Swan” I went deliberately to the shop with my mother, because I think I was only 12

VERNON: To buy that?

TOYAH: To buy that specifically. I remember the red paper sleeve and the brittleness of the vinyl was so exciting. Music back then was tactile. You had covers that you could look at, that you could read

VERNON: Pieces of art

TOYAH: Pieces of art. You joined the club by the music that you bought. I did see T.Rex play live that year at the Birmingham Odeon. I was on the front row dancing and getting smacked by the security for standing up and screaming. And even though I love “Ride A White Swan” ...“Cosmic Dancer” blew me away because Marc Bolan sat on that stage, cross legged within four feet of me

VERNON: He had something about him, didn't he?

TOYAH: He was petite, elfin-like and in a way, when Bowie created Ziggy Stardust, he picked the banner up and ran with it. It was such an exciting time for male performers because Alice Cooper put the eyeliner on, T.Rex had the glitter and then Bowie put the boiler suits on that were very tight and absolutely delicious. It was such a great time to be a teenager

VERNON: I can imagine. And how were you introduced to T.Rex?

TOYAH: I think T.Rex must have been on "Llift Off With Ayshea" (a TV show on ITV 1969-74), rather than Top Of The Pops because it seemed back then this children's program that had musicians on was ahead of the time. But that glitter on the cheek and the hair and the gentle, soft, lispy voice. I was in love immediately

VERNON: Do you have any of those records that you bought?

TOYAH: I have them all

VERNON: Do you really?!


TOYAH: I even have Cliff Richard's “Fly Away, Peter, Fly Away, Paul”. I even have Tommy Steele's “Little White Bull” that I was given when I was four years old. I have my entire vinyl collection

VERNON: Oh, wait, let's talk about that. So throughout the stages of your life, how was that collection managed to be with you or stay with you? And how have you maintained that collection?

TOYAH: I have no idea

VERNON: That's impossible, Toyah

TOYAH: In 1977 I was living in a British Rail warehouse ("Mayhem", in Battersea, above) which was over 2000 square feet, where Spandau Ballet did their first gig. Steve Strange would throw four day parties. Iggy Pop rehearsed tours there. John Cale of the Velvet Underground worked there and my vinyl collection was in the green room

How I still have it I do not know. Some very precious things have gone like one of the very first pressings of the Velvet Underground but I will seek it out and find it! I taught myself to draw by copying Led Zeppelin album covers

VERNON: Nice!

TOYAH: So I just used to learn that way and learn about the choices artists made. (They) informed everything I did up until the point I picked up “Lord Of The Rings” and spent two years reading that, which informed me even more that I wanted to be a creative

VERNON: Oh, OK, so throughout school there was no inkling of that? Or was there an inkling of you being a creative?

TOYAH: There was definitely an inkling of being a creative because I didn't learn to speak until I was about five. I had a really pronounced speech impediment and I had a brilliant speech therapist who realised she could teach me the vowels by getting me to sing them. So I sang before I actually spoke

VERNON: That's interesting, because a lot of people with speech impediments use song to communicate

TOYAH: Yeah. Because when you sing you're using the tongue in a much stronger way. She needed to teach me to hit the back of my front teeth so that I could form vowels. So she would say “sing A”. (Sings) “A, B, D” and of course the tongue is doing all that work. And eventually I became a very chatty singer

VERNON: (laughs) You've not changed!

TOYAH: I've not changed

VERNON: We like that!

TOYAH: I was a very rebellious 12 year old onwards. So I would turn up at the Birmingham Bull Ring shopping centre where there was a venue within that shopping centre. I'd wait for roadies to come out of the exit and I'd sneak in

So I saw Black Sabbath when I was 12. The loudest band I've ever seen. I've seen Hawk Wind at that age. I also saw Uriah Heep. But apart from seeing T.Rex and David Bowie, I also saw Roxy Music twice

VERNON: Seamless. Why have you picked by them “Do The Strand”


TOYAH: I love early Roxy Music. I still play it every day today. There is something about that original lineup with Brian Eno in it where they are all so ultra creative. I cannot not play that album daily or those albums daily and “Do The Strand” is Brian Ferry singing at his most Ferry'ish

VERNON: That's a good way to put it. He came in here and did “Tracks Of My Years” and to sit opposite him, hearing him talk about his art school days is something else - when someone tells you their life story face to face

TOYAH: Especially his background. I met him because we had the same management but one day I was at home alone. Robert was off on tour and I was trying on a stage costume that was PVC. I had black thigh boots on with six inch heels. I had PVC shorts on and a black net top. Someone knocked at the door. So I opened the door and it was Brian Ferry

VERNON: You opened the door dressed like that?

TOYAH: Yeah

VERNON: (Puts on a seductive voice) Hello, Brian (laughs)

TOYAH: I thought it was a postman or something. And it was Brian Ferry and his wife. He looked at me and I said, “I don't dress like this normally”. And he said “is Robert at home?” And I said, “No, but come in, have a cup of tea” (Vernon laughs) And we had tea and cake

VERNON: Tell me you got changed

TOYAH: No (Vernon laughs)

Roxy Music “Do The Strand” plays

VERNON: Now, we mentioned earlier that you were in that big rail yard warehouse with all the other bands and Steve Strange (below with Toyah) putting on the events. I'm assuming that this “Fade To Grey” is that period that we're going to talk about

TOYAH: It's absolutely that period. Steve Strange was a beautiful creature  

VERNON: Martin Kent (of Spandau Ballet) spoke very highly of him

TOYAH: He was a lovely, gentle, creative human being who accepted everybody. He was a kind person. He would hire our warehouse for four days from Friday right through to Monday. Always cleared up the 10,000 beer cans that would be there. So we used to cram about 400 people into his parties and they would stay the whole four days

What Steve didn't know is as soon as he arrived and we set up the venue, I'd drive to Birmingham see mum and dad and wouldn't come back till Monday evening. Steve and I had the same costume designer. She was called Melissa Caplan so we kind of followed the same style progression as did Spandau Ballet. We shared an awful lot of creative development together

I was so jealous of Steve Strange when he appeared in David Bowie's video “Ashes to Ashes”. But “Fade To Grey” I think is one of the best singles in the world. Written by Midge Ure. Beautiful song and only Steve strange could have performed it


VERNON: Do you think when you were making it or had aspirations to make it . . . was your visual signature as important then as it became?

TOYAH: For me visuals were an indication of who I was inside

VERNON: So you used the visual more than the music to portray your image?

TOYAH: At that time the visual was probably more present than the music. What I mean by that is that as a woman I didn't feel I fitted into the category women were expected to fit into

VERNON: Explain more

TOYAH: I came into the music industry in 1977 where you have beautiful female singers. They all looked like models and I didn't. I was very small. I was very dumpy and I had to find my way into performing music live as a singer

So I created my own look. I made my own clothes. I had brightly colored hair. Mainly orange, mainly red. I did a movie called “Jubilee”, which was a punk movie in 1977. Basically I was a tomboy in a boiler suit and not what the music industry was looking for

VERNON: So when Madonna came what did you think of her?

TOYAH: Well, Madonna came early to mid 80's and she caused a sexual revolution. When I was ascending we were trying to bring more women into the music industry. We needed more women in the boardroom, basically. So you had singers like myself, Hazel O'Connor, Polystyrene of X-Ray Spex. You had Siouxsie Sioux. We were really strong, independent individual women. By about 1983 Madonna was appearing and she was breaking down these walls of sexuality. She was magnificent!

VERNON: Yeah. Amazing. All right. The next track you've chosen - we've mentioned him a couple of times already and I can tell that you're a huge fan of David Bowie and you picked “Ashes to ashes”. First of all, did you ever meet David?

TOYAH: Yeah. My husband, Robert Fripp has worked with David Bowie a lot. Robert played on “Heroes”. He plays on the single “Fashion” but he also did two albums with David Bowie. I stood within eight inches of David Bowie when he asked Robert to join the band Tin Machine and my husband said no, he was too busy

I was squeezing Robert's hand so hard I was going to break every finger in his hands. I dragged him out the room and I said “you're going to say yes to this job”. And he didn't. Bowie would phone the house and email regularly wanting Robert to do things as would Peter Gabriel, as would Mike Oldfield and my husband would say he's too busy while I'm watching him drink coffee and read magazines all day

VERNON: (cackles) (pretends to be angry) “Damn you, Robert! Could have had a new conservatory! Good grief!” (Toyah laughs) How often does Robert practice?

TOYAH: Robert has retired now from live work because he had a heart attack in May but he's practicing four hours every day and we're still doing our social media. When he was touring he'd practice six to eight hours a day


VERNON: (Amazed) Really? You always assume that when someone makes it they're there - they're on the top of the hill

TOYAH: You're never there

VERNON: It was only when Johnny Mar said, “I practice every day” I was dumbfounded. I was lost for words. “You practice every day?” “Yeah, because I'm not the best guitarist, but I want to be better”

So we should reiterate, because a lot of parents are going to be listening and a lot of parents will probably get frustrated that their kids either are or aren't practicing. Practice, practice, practice

When was the last time do you think – and I know this is your “Tracks Of My Years” but I just need to ask - when was the last time that Robert went into a guitar shop?

TOYAH: Oh, that's a fantastic question. We sneak into them all the time because I play guitar and I collect guitars so when I see something or he sees something that's a genuine Gibson from 1958 he has to go in and touch it and feel it and feel the string tension and all of that. We're doing that all the time

VERNON: Oh, good

TOYAH: At the moment his guitar collection is secreted into one room so that I can't get my hands on them (Vernon laughs) I never know what he's been up to or what he's bought, what's there (Vernon laughs)

VERNON: Let's get back to David Bowie. You picked out “Ashes To Ashes”. Why this one in particular?

TOYAH: This came out 1980 just before I broke as an international singer. It was such a low point in my life. My band had broken up and I went away to Devon with a broken heart with my lead guitarist, Joel Bogen who I wrote four albums with. Joel saw that I needed to just get away and this came on the radio and it was like my life just opened up like a flower. I could see what we had to do

Then “It's A Mystery” came into our lives and my life changed forever in 1981. So “Ashes To Ashes” represents to me how Bowie rose like a phoenix from the flames every time he released something new and it just gave me the courage and the belief in myself that I needed in that moment

Up until this point I'd been at the National Theater as a lead actress. I'd made “Quadrophenia”, the movie. I had acting awards from making “The Tempest” with Derek Jarman. I'd made “Quatermass” the drama with Sir John Mills and suddenly everything came crashing down and I just didn't know how to get out of the void, the blackness and Bowie lifted me right out of it as an artist

David Bowie “Ashes To Ashes” plays
Björk "Human Behaviour" plays

VERNON: One thing I love about Björk is when she came on the scene everyone thought she was bonkers

TOYAH: That's brutal!

VERNON: No, I know you're frowning but people would watch her and observe her behavior and because she had the quirky voice and she was the perfect artist - because she had a lot to talk about in the way that you portrayed her through your eyes and the way that you heard her through her voice

But what Björk was doing was saying it's time for something else, to start this new genre of women in music. I just think what she did at the time was so joyful in her performance


TOYAH: I find her exciting because she's Icelandic. She learned music in Icelandic. She's very experienced in jazz and it's the same with songwriters from Sweden, because the language is so different to the English language, they use it in such a beautiful and original way

I fell in love with Björk and The Sugar Cubes were breathtaking! That was her first band. I just wanted to be in her life, because she was so fresh. She was utterly stunning at what she did. The use of her vocal cords as an instrument

The imagery, the videos, everything was, in a way, what I'd been trying to do up until that moment. I just thought she took all those past generations, ingested them into her psyche and came up with Björk

VERNON: Wait, wait, wait, wait! You just said something there that's huge. So prior to seeing Björk you wanted that Björk to be you. Is that what you're saying? Or you wanted Toyah to be that but you couldn't get there? How do you explain what you've just said?

TOYAH: I always use my voice as an instrument. On my first albums, “Sheep Farming In Barnet”, “Blue Meaning”, “Anthem” I was not only a lyricist, I was using my voice as an instrument. So was Lene Lovich, so was Kate Bush. We were all quite experimental with our voices and using a lot of octave range. Björk came along and she did it effortlessly from day one

You can look at Kate Bush's career journey to getting to “Hounds Of Love” - there's a lot of experimental vocals in that journey. With Lene lovich - she's remained very much Lene Lovich but an experimental vocalist. And the same with me but I've moved more into rock as my voice has deepened and got richer. I now stick to rock octaves. But Björk - in with perfection from day one

VERNON: Let me ask you - we mentioned that you were having vocal training. Did that continue throughout your career? And did it increase as a professional vocalist?

TOYAH: I've had vocal training all my through my life. When I made the album “Desire” Abbey Road, which was 1988 (Edit: 1987) I was in vocal training to sing that album because I wanted to change my writing. Then in 2007 I trained with the Royal Shakespeare Company's voice specialist who trains all the children for the musical “Matilda” because my voice was deepening and she taught me how to keep my top notes. So I'm always dipping into that education

VERNON: Amazing

TOYAH: It's like the guitar playing. Use it or lose it

VENRON: Yeah. I know that you have the podcast with Robert. Do you plan that or is it just you two sat down chitter chattering off the cuff?

TOYAH: We do a song once a month and that we only do one take off. Unless he really messes up. It is rehearsed the day before we do it, so he knows the arrangement. But we never rehearse the visuals and we go for the first take because it's chaotic. There's no production values


VERNON: Oh, good. Love that

TOYAH: We want people laughing their heads off. We want people thinking these are the grandparents we want to live with

VERNON: (Laughs) That's a good way of putting it. But you guys have got so much talent in one room collectively

TOYAH: Thank you

VERNON: You just make it look so easy

TOYAH: Well, we try to make the chaos look easy as well because that's important. We kept everything we do in the kitchen

VERNON: Now we're moving on to Shakespeare's Sister and you've picked “Stay”. Why have you picked Shakespeare's Sister?

TOYAH: Because it's the most heartbreaking song in the world! It's the video. It's Marcella's interpretation of trying to keep her man. Oh, it's so heartbreaking! It's truly evocative of pain but a very beautiful pain. I love Shakespeare's Sister. I love the marriage of both of them

They are so opposite and so potentially bouncing off the walls and dangerous and full of ideas. It's just fabulous! “Stay” is beautiful and the video! Siobhan coming down the stairs in that completely mad sparkly light, just embracing being a bad, naughty film star. I love her for it

VERNON: If I was to go around to your house and either pick up a tablet, a device or your phone and plug it into your sound system . . . what would we hear? Are you always listening to new music or do you like going back?

TOYAH: Robert listens all the time to classical music. Vaughan Williams, Chekhov, which is so depressing. It's always blaring out the classics. With me it will be old Roxy Music, the original lineup. Bowie, very likely “Man Who Sold The World” or “Hunky Dory”because I love that era. A lot of Velvet Underground. I love the American scene in the 70's. It was so fantastic. Patty Smith. So we are completely different in our tastes

VERNON: Do you still go to gigs?

TOYAH: I go to gigs if I can stand at the side of the stage. I'm barely five foot tall. I don't enjoy elbows in my face (Vernon chuckles) Going back to what you'd find on our tablets and on our computers - with me it would be hundreds of Instagram films of domestic rabbits

VERNON: (laughs) I love you!

TOYAH: I go down the rabbit hole

VERNON: Literally!

TOYAH: I get lost! I have a wonderful young personal manager who was born in 2003 who just loses me to scrolling through rabbit movies from around the world  

VERNON: Doomscrolling

Shakespeare's Sister “Stay” plays
Britney Spears “Oops!... I Did It Again” plays 

TOYAH: Robert and I were part of the protest about her getting her freedom from her father. We were very vocal about it. I just love her. I think she's magical. She's a fabulous singer, great dancer, and she's everything she wanted to be. And “Oops!... I Did It Again” I just think she got the zeitgeist on that, because how could you not love her for that song?

VERNON: Let me ask you - Britney Spears - is fame a good or bad thing, Toyah?


TOYAH: I think you have people come into the fame world who become famous because somehow we sense they are fragile and brittle and have a vulnerability that is very attractive to us. I once saw a performance by a very famous actress where she lost her lines three times on a live stage performance. It was one of the most magical performances I have ever seen

They say this about Marilyn Monroe that she was so brittle, she was magical. I think we sense when people are genuinely in a very special place when they give us something that is rare, it's not contrived and it is utterly brilliant. She was just suffering the most terrible stage nerves and she was wonderful

VERNON: Isn't it amazing how those stage nerves get you?

TOYAH: Oh, it's hell!

VERNON: It is hell

TOYAH: It's absolute hell! The last time I experienced terror was when I did “Strictly Come Dancing” (above with her partner Neil Jones) last year and I was in a state of terror every Saturday night but I loved every moment. Have I experienced terror on stage as an actress? Funnily enough no, because I feel so at home on stage. I love it

VERNON: I've done a little bit of acting but I've had moments where I've looked out and there's been no people in the audience, even though there are, and it's just a black wall

TOYAH: I love that feeling!

VERNON: Oh, really?

TOYAH: Yeah. I've done two shows where there actually has only been either three people in the audience or just about 50. One was “Cabaret”. The whole of the UK was snowed in and I was at the Strand Theatre with Wayne sleep but 100 people made it to the show. We thought we are giving them the best show they could have. They gave us standing ovations for every song. It was like an intimate party! It was lovely

The show that I had three people in for five o'clock matinee was at the Princess Theatre in Torquay. Five o'clock matinees just don't work. There were 40 members in the theatre company for “Calamity Jane”. I was playing “Calamity Jane”. We had an Equity (Actors' Equity Association, a labour union) meeting. Do we do the show?

Because legally we could say no because there was more people on stage than in the audience. I kicked up and I said “those three people are the most important people in the world at this moment. We are giving them the show.” So they got a private preview!

VERNON: (laughs) Brilliant! I love that! We've got to talk about “The Very Best of Toyah”!

TOYAH: Ooh thank you! Yeah, forgotten all about that!

VERNON: Well, it's been an amazing week. “Chameleon – The Very Best Of Toyah. It's out on the fifth of September. I would imagine that it's taken you a fair decent amount of time to curate this album to give us your journey?

TOYAH: It's 45 years of music. I came from a time – punk - where you never repeated yourself, you never took more than two singles off an album, which meant I had to be very prolific. I had to keep writing, writing, writing. This album “Chameleon” spans not only the very first indie punk music I did - it also includes “Posh Pop”, which went to number one in about 36 independent charts four years ago

It's a very broad piece but it's magical because it's a gatefold album, gold vinyl. It's a double CD and it's also a Blu-ray with 12 videos on. It's got the very first time I ever sang “It's A Mystery” as a demo on. So it's got these really insightful, beautiful fan pieces, like the demos of the singles or the first time we ever played it in front of an audience. It includes everything and there's stuff on there that the real die-hard fans have never heard


VERNON: Who had the demo of “It's A Mystery”? Where was that?!

TOYAH: The original label is Safari and they kept everything in boxes. Then a label called Cherry Red bought the whole of the Safari catalogue. I have a wonderful archivist called Craig Astley, who I first met when his mother brought him into my dressing room

He was four years old and he said “I'm your youngest fan”. So I stayed in touch with him and he became my archivist. I think he's in his early 40's now. He went into cherry Red, went through about 40 boxes of material and cherry picked everything because he's such a die-hard fan

VERNON: Wow!

TOYAH: He came up with the name “Chameleon”. I said, “Craig, I want to call it “The Meteorite”. He said, “No, you are a chameleon. Take it from me. That's what it's going to be called”

VERNON: Imagine finding that tape in that box!

TOYAH: He was very excited!

VERNON: I'm not surprised! I'm excited. Not even heard it yet! That's so cool!

TOYAH: It is cool. He's a very cool person

VERNON: You're going on tour with “The Songs and Stories Tour”? 

TOYAH: So I'm going out in October and November with Adam Ant. It's only just been announced. But I'm also doing Union Chapel in Islington and Warwick Arts Centre as a celebration of “Chameleon”. Then I am going out with Big Country for December. March to June next year I have 49 shows where I'm singing with two guitarists and storytelling. That is a very intimate “you have come into my living room” moment

VERNON: It starts on the 22nd of March in Chelmsford at the Civic and it ends on the 14th of June at Perth Town Hall

TOYAH: It's a long one!

VERNON: It really is!

TOYAH: I'll know what I'm doing by the time I get to Perth!

VERNON: (Laughs) Don't say that! I know it's been really quick this week with your two choices but the stories that you've got are unbelievable. Anyone who's a fan of music will want to say “tell us more, tell us more, tell us more!”

TOYAH: There is a lot in there and there's a lot that happens behind the scenes like ending up singing happy birthday to the president of Estonia on the Russian border or ending up in a meeting with the Queen Mother and Princess Margaret because they want to have tea with you. There's so much to tell!

VERNON: Brilliant. Well, there's the worm on the end of the hook so to speak. We'll finish with Billie Eilish and “No Time To Die”, the Bond theme

TOYAH: Well, I think this goes full circle. Billie Eilish has a phenomenal recording technique that works on stage. I love what she writes. I love how she uses words and uses her voice and I think it's a beautiful full circle from Toyah, the punk rock singer and all my fellow singers at that time to Billie Eilish and all her fellow singers today

VERNON: Amazing and it's a great end to a fab week. Thank you so much, Toyah

TOYAH: Thank you. It's lovely to see you

VERNON: Oh, and you

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